I've been following a certain thread for a while, deciding how to respond. And if I should even say anything. But in the interest of future forum members who read this thread, I want to say that I don't agree with what happened here at all.

I am very happy that all the puppies are healthy and that Taylor is doing well, but breeding like this is reckless backyard breeding. Or at best, hobby breeding with no pedigree foundation. Letting your dogs breed on their own is very risky and lots of things can go wrong. Just because it didn't in this case doesn't mean that it won't happen to the next person. In fact, if you look at the stats, because it didn't happen this time, the chances are better that it will happen to the next person who lets their dogs breed indiscriminately.

Again, this isn't an attack on anyone in particular and not at the OP of that thread (click here >> Some news of my own), either.

There are enough dogs in the world. If you are thinking about breeding your Yorkie, take a stroll to the nearest shelter. Go and apologize to the dogs and puppies there that because you WANT to breed your Yorkie for a little extra cash and the chance to have puppies in your house, they won't get a home.

If you really want puppies and you can't afford dogs of breeding quality, volunteer your services as foster mom to a local shelter or welfare. You'll have puppies in the house and you won't have contributed to the problem with dogs in the world.

Who of you believe that what PETA is doing is right? They are the people who throw red paint on people who wear fur. Do you think they are doing good for the animals?

I think so; the problem is just that they believe that animals shouldn't be in the control of humans. If PETA had their way, there would no longer be any household pets. If the world continues to treat their pets like breeding machines and let them bring more and more puppies into the world, how long do you think will it take until PETA will have enough evidence to prove that we can't manage pets effectively? And then, how long before we won't be allowed to have pets?

We have a responsibility to manage our pets well and to think of their well-being AND that of the species. Breeding your dog without having them evaluated and tested for illnesses is irresponsible and selfish.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but that's my personal opinion.

In reality I should not reply to this thread because what has been said here is a direct attack on me as an individual and public defamation of character was against the law last time I checked. But if you feel it is ok to voice your opinions then so do I.

Wow Marilize, that is a REALLY charming response to my thread. I’m so flattered that you took the time out of your busy schedule to have a personal attack. And that is exactly what this was, a personal attack on me and my dogs and my litter. If this was not a personal attack then you would not have mentioned Taylor or the OP - being me. And you certainly wouldn’t have made a direct link to MY thread or said you had been following the thread for a while wondering how to respond. And seeing as I am the only member on this forum who has a litter I don’t see who else you would be aiming this at.

Perhaps if you had been following the thread for some time and "doubted whether to say anything or not" you shouldn’t have. Has it taken 4 weeks to come up with that? I think your judgments are unfair and unjustified. My grandmother always told us to "put our brains into gear before opening our mouths and letting our stomachs grumble"...she was a wise women!! If you need a translation, it basically means you must think before you speak, especially when you are not in possession of all the facts because chances are all that will come out is hot air and noise.

You call it reckless backyard breeding...did you for a single moment stop and send me a message to find out the facts before publically posting your opinions? They are facts that may have surprised you. I would have sent this response to you personally but now I feel it necessary to show that the so called leader of this forum is ignorant in this regard.

You seem to think I put my dogs outside, let them go for it hell for leather without any monitoring and 9 weeks later out popped a litter! Again my point of EVERY breeder starting somewhere has immense value here. I didn’t wake up one morning and think I could do with some extra cash so let’s breed the dogs. I had a lot of help from my vet as well as 2 very experienced breeders along the way. I sought advice from people I trust and people who in all honesty know a lot more than you do.

I stand to be corrected but have you ever bred a litter? Do you know the sweat and tears that goes into this? Oh wait! Haven’t you yourself become involved in a breeding program that relates to Biewers? Do you not have a Biewer that will one day be the stud to Biewer females in your region? I just love hypocrites...

So tell me then....have YOU taken a trip down to your local shelters and "apologised to the dogs and puppies there that because you WANT to breed your Yorkie for a little extra cash and the chance to have puppies in your house, they won't get a home."

In all reality, I have not made a cent out of my "backyard hobby breeding". I have spent thousands of Rands of my hard earned money on ultrasounds, x-rays, health tests, checkups and a well balanced diet plan. And the bills are by no means over yet. Have you (in your own mind a show judge I’m sure) ever come over and personally SEEN my dogs? Have you judged their physical features, personality and breeding lines? Because I sure don’t remember that visit.

For a forum that set out to be different from the others (I won’t name and shame publically because that would be wrong) where people did exactly what you have done and jump to their own set of conclusions and treat people with disrespect, you sure have gone and ruined this for a lot of people. Well, you have for me.

The very reason why I went about my business the way I did and had help from people without making it public knowledge was for this very reason. Because the world is full of judgmental hypocritical people such as yourself.

All I can say now is that people who live in big glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Point a finger if you like but take note of the fingers pointing right back at you. If you are a spiritual / religious person you will know the saying from the bible that talks about removing the rafter from your own eye before attempting to remove the small straw from your brother's eye...should I go on?

My dog is by no means a breeding machine. Every single one of my babies has a safe home to go to, ones that I have personally visited and assessed to make sure they are safe and looked after. Additionally my buyers are obligated to have them spayed and neutered and they all have breeding restrictions on them to prevent any unwanted litters in future. Aspects that I will be checking up on very carefully. Any puppy that one day needs to be re-homed (should that ever happen because people's circumstances sometimes change) will come back to me so that I can find that home for them or they will remain as my own. I have taken the time and dedication to ensure their futures are protected.

In fact, I don’t need to justify myself to you. All you have done is show your ignorance in this regard. You have made true sense of that saying I mentioned earlier by opening your mouth and letting your stomach grumble on. The only problem is that you have done it publically so that everyone can hear and in the process really made yourself look like a fool and irritated me beyond belief. You have NO idea what you are talking about. Were you not taught as a child that if you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all?

You made very serious allegations publically, none of which are true and in my opinion you have done a good job of defaming my character and intentions on a public forum

The only irresponsible and selfish thing that has been done is your ignorant comments to me. I would like to say I will no longer be a forum member, but in my lifetime I have been judged a lot and I have learned not to let people get the better of me. I have made a lot of good friends through these forums and I won’t cut off my nose to spite my face. So if you would like to get rid of me then ban me...it will just show the rest of the members how you really are.

But let it also be known that in the past I sought help from you privately because you offered it. Only then did you change your mind and get on your high horse about the issue and start to try and talk me out of it. After that I found my own help from other sources...these sources could teach you a few things. It was for the better seeing as you yourself have absolutely no experience and everything you say has come straight out of the books you publically advise people to read as good reading material.

My "risky backyard breeding" venture led me to a very healthy litter of 3 gorgeous babies, all born naturally and safely and I am very proud of them as well as my 2 pedigree dogs who have wonderful natures and are disease FREE.

This is not your first attack either - In the past you accused my dogs of not fitting into your precious breed standard. You seem to discriminate against people and animals alike.

Thank you for making such a spectacle of yourself. I hope this is one thread you do NOT delete so that others (old and new to the forum) can see what it is all about. But perhaps change the heading because every step of this litter was planned.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. You certainly don't have to justify yourself to me - you can do whatever you like. But this forum is here for the future of the breed. If you breed dogs who don't adhere to the breed standard, you aren't doing it for the future of the breed. That's the simple truth, whether you like it or not.

And since you bring up my biewer - he was evaluated and he will be evaluated again to ensure that he is breeding quality before he is selectively studded out to females who also adhere to the breed standard. And if he turns out not to be breeding quality? He won't be bred! That's the difference.

I haven't bred any dogs, no. But the reason I haven't is because I didn't have the right dogs to start breeding with. I have a female who I could easily have bred, but I didn't want to because she wouldn't have improved the breed. If I could wait and hope and pray for the right dogs to start something as big as this (and ALL breeding is BIG), why couldn't you?

When you came to me for help, I wasn't interested in helping you breed. I was interested in helping you do it RIGHT. And breeding with your pets isn't right. I'm not about to stand by and tell you that what you are doing is right when it isn't.

And yes, I have been to the shelters and I often bring dogs home with me to foster, if you remember. That's why I don't want to add to the problem.

The incredibly sad truth is that the less valuable a bloodline is, the higher the chance that the dog will end up in a shelter. Or worse, in a puppymill. And that's exactly where South Africa is heading with the Yorkies. The Yorkies in the US were just like ours at one stage, now they are much much worse.

Are you offering a health guarantee with the puppies? Do you plan on signing a contract with the owner that if they can't keep a puppy, the puppy comes back to you? Are you willing to help pay for the medical expenses if one of those puppies gets sick or needs surgery due to a genetic disease?

I'm sorry that you feel this forum isn't here to protect the breed. And I don't want it to turn into another bitchy forum, but I'm sure that we've all known each other long enough to face the truth. I simply can't sit by and let the next reader come across your thread, think it's cool to breed their Yorkie and go for it. This is a public forum, after all.

I'll say this again, I never got personal and I'm not attacking anyone in particular. I'm just using this an example and I'm sorry that you had to be the example, but as you said yourself: you were the first member of the forum who bred their pets.

I want to add that I'm really glad you took the time to prepare yourself for the whelping and raising the puppies. I'm also really happy that you had a vet on standby along with two experienced breeders to help. The only problem I have is that it isn't a good idea to breed with your pets. If you know that you want to breed, take the time to find dogs of breeding quality so that you know you are improving the breed.

If we want Yorkies to stay out of puppy mills and to still look like Yorkies in 100 years, we need to only breed those who adhere to the breed standard. Otherwise the breed standard, and Yorkies like we know them, will be lost.

Not to sound dramatic, but as lovers of the Yorkshire Terrier, we are the custodians of the breed. If we, who love them, won't protect the future of the breed, who will?

Firstly I never said the forum doesn't protect the breed, I said that there are people who jump to their own conclusions and open their mouths without knowing what they are talking about like you have done.

This WAS a personal attack on me, using me as your example.

So my litter is not a sign of love? STILL you have no idea the standards of my dogs or puppies or whether or not im giving a health guarantee, signing contracts etc. You have seen a few pictures of them that is all. All that aside, my puppies are being sold as pets only. My "breeding machines" as you call them are first and foremost in my life a pet and my puppies are going to people to bring that same joy and happiness to their homes as they do to mine.

If i was the first member to "breed my pets" then what are everyone else's dogs to them? not pets?

You can't go around making allegations against people when you dont know the facts.

And i think it is insulting to say I think it is "cool" to breed my Yorkie. Where do you get off with all this stuff?

I dont publically share ALL my stories. You have no idea which clubs and organisations i am part of, what I stand for, what events i attend and my dogs breeding lines etc

I am not going to have this crazy argument with you backwards and forwards. Just think before you speak because you dont know everything and your personal attack on me was unjustified and uncalled for and I do NOT appreciate it. Dont throw terms like backyard breeder, hobby breeder and puppymill at me because that is disgusting.

Im done with this conversation, kindly keep your opinions to yourself.

Please don't take all of this so personally, Taylorwoods.

I never said that your dogs are breeding machines and I never said that you don't love them. What I meant by 'pets' is that they are pet quality. All our dogs are our pets, but you don't breed with your pets. The point being that if you buy a dog for a pet, you shouldn't breed with them. If you bought them as breeding quality pets, then by all means, if you have the knowledge and experience to do it correctly and safely, go for it.

I also never said that you thought it was 'cool'. I meant that future readers can read through your thread, look at the pictures and think "Look how cute the puppies are. Look at the great reaction by other forum members. Look at the success of this litter. I want to do it too." I never said that this is what you did.

I never made any allegations against you. I asked you whether you are going to provide health guarantees or contracts. You accuse me of having no idea of whether you will provide these things, but when I ask you if you will, you don't give an answer. How can I know when you won't share the information? How I can support what you are doing if you won't be transparent in how you're doing it?

And no, I don't know which clubs or organisations you belong to. If you don't mind sharing, I'd love to hear which of them you support. I do know, however, that you aren't a member of the Yorkshire Terrier Club of South Africa - the only club which inspects and evaluates its breeders and their dogs.

You also said that I don't know whether your dogs are breeding quality because I've only seen photos. Well, ask any breeder or prospective puppy buyer, photos can tell you a lot.

And I also know that neither Taylor nor Trigger are from breeding quality parents and neither of them have had success in the show ring. This is enough to know that they aren't breeding quality, sorry.

It's really hard to hear that your dog isn't breeding quality. I had to go through that myself, but you can't take it personally. If you want to breed in a way that will make the community proud, you need to become an amazing JUDGE of what a Yorkshire Terrier should look like. The best breeders always find fault with their own dogs - it's the pursuit of perfection (in a Yorkie) that they live for. And thanks to them, we have the Yorkshire Terrier breed today.

I am really happy to hear that you are going to sell all of your puppies as pets only. How will you enforce this, if I may ask? How will you ensure that the future owners won't breed with the puppies? It's really easy to sell as 'pets only', it's much harder to get people to stick to that agreement.

I'm sorry that you are taking this all so personally, Taylorwoods. But you probably had an idea that I wouldn't keep quiet about it because I don't agree with what happened here. And again, I'm sorry that you're taking it personally. It's just the truth.

I wont be transparent with you now after being attacked before being asked. Thanks but no thanks. Had you asked me privately before making judgement, or even sent a kind reply asking these questions in a polite manner yes I would have been more than happy to tell you but I will not entertain this any longer. You are actually wasting my time and testing my patience today. Im not under interrogation and last time i checked there was no law saying you cant breed your dogs.

I am 100% happy and proud of my dogs and my litter and I wont justify that to anyone. They are all going to safe homes that I have assessed in person and to people I personally know and trust and who will be a part of my life forever so I know exactly where they are and how they are. The details are not your business.

I am not a member of your YTCSA, I am a member of KUSA which on your site you claim to be the "only standard of excellence by which the Yorkshire Terrier shall be judged". I pay them my fees.

Please just keep your opinions to yourself and leave me alone. Stop asking questions, I wont answer them. not because I have anything to hide but because it is not your business and I dont owe you anything. And i dont have the tolerance to put up with your pettiness.

This is my last repsonse, say what you like from here on. I wont add more fuel to your fire.

Taylorwoods, KUSA membership means absolutely nothing. That has been proven again and again.
On my site, it says that we adhere to the standard that KUSA published because it's the same standard that is used internationally. The problem is that KUSA doesn't adhere to that standard. There's nothing the YTCSA can do about that, but we can inspect and check our own breeders. The lack of control by KUSA is exactly why it is necessary to have a club like the YTCSA.

I'm really sorry you feel and reacted this way. I am more than ready to admit that I could have done this in a much nicer way (in hindsight, there's always a nicer way to do something). But your response is very defensive and guarded for someone who is proud of what she has done.

I'm happy that your dogs and puppies are doing well and that they will be going to homes where you can keep in contact with them for life. I wish them all the best.

And like I said in the previous message, you don't have to justify your actions to me. But I always get suspicious when people don't want to share details that will prove them right.

I have never been a member of this forum, but I have followed the forum for the past year or so. I have no way to sweeten up my words, so forgive me if this seems too blunt, but in my opinion Maralizie your post was inappropriate and was not the actions one would expect of a forum leader. I have read through the posts numerous times on the "Some news of my own" link, and clearly you have jumped to many conclusions. A more mature way to have handled this situation would have been to have contacted Taylorwoods through private messages. If you were armed with all the facts and still felt it was an unplanned & irresponsible breeding and still felt it necessary to give your opinion publicly, you could have achieved this in a way that would not have been seen as a misinformed personal attack. The only thing this will say to future forum members (and to existing members too for that matter) is that they too will be at risk of such harsh judgment. Without the correct information we must presume one is "Innocent until proven guilty" & to label someone guilty we must have sufficient evidence to prove that. Becareful when you judge another, for you too will be judged the same way. If your concern was for the dogs involved and the future of the pups involved, would it not have been better to politely communicate with Taylorwoods, and in a friendly manner advise her how to go about putting breeding restrictions on the pups, how to make sure the pups go to the right homes, how to draw up contracts,etc. A pro-active approach would not have gone without rewarded, but a judgemantal approach can reap no rewards.

Please don't misinterpretate what I am saying here. I do not support back yard breeding, unplanned or irresponsible breeding - I am simply saying there was nothing in the link "Some news of my own" to suggest this was the case & further private investigation handled in a more professional manner would have been a more appropriate route to take.

Goodness gracious dear child - did you honestly offer to be a mentor to someone wanting to start a breeding program when you yourself have very little if any experience in this field? From what I have seen on this forum over the past year that would be a genuine case of the blind leading the blind. This is meant as constructive criticism and not to harm you, but lovey did you ever play the game called "Broken telephone wire" as a child? It is when you all sit around in a circle & one person begins by whispering something in to the next persons ear, then that person whispers whatever they heard in to the next persons ear, & so it goes on until the last person, then that last person says out loud what they heard. What the last person says is usually nothing even remotely similar to what the first person said. For you to take a position as mentor to someone would have a similar result as this, because you are simply taking the word of others & passing it on. This is a very dangerous method to use as a mentor. A mentor must not be a middle man, they must be first in command & must speak & advise predominantly through their own experience & knowledge. Perhaps I am just an old fashioned fool, but back in my day a breeder would not dare take on the role of mentor without a vast amount of experience and knowledge behind them.

Irrespective of the past history between yourself & Taylorwood, regardless of the wrong doing that Taylorwood may or may not have done, it was unethical of you to publicly hang her on a noose. For a forum to be successful the forum leaders must have a high level of 1) MATURITY 2) PR SKILLS & 3) HANDS ON EXPERIENCE & ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE. I think your intentions are very good and your passion is admirable, but from what I have seen on the forum over the past year is that you are giving yourself the role of teacher when clearly you are a student, and as such you are giving out some very misinformed information on many topics on the forum. There is no shame in being a pupil, we must all spend much time as students - but a student must not sit in the teachers chair. If one takes a single verse from the bible, that verse can more then likely be interpreted in many different ways, but to understand the true meaning of each verse one must have knowledge of the whole bible. It is very much the same principal with many things in life.

Be careful of what you carve in stone for those words can not be washed away and can leave a path of destruction that one day you will sorely regret.

I get your point and I agree, I am still a student. I have a couple of mentors who teach me and I have been studying the subject for the past four years. Maybe I should have clarified what I offered Taylorwoods. I never gave myself out to be an expert on the subject, I just go look for the answers when the questions arise. And when I find the answers, I post them on this forum. My comments are always open to criticism and I'd be the first one to admit it when I'm wrong.

I'm sorry if it came across that I'm on a high horse thinking I know everything. In fact, it's because I know that I know nothing that I am keen to learn as much as I can. And I am always willing to share that with someone who has a similar goal. I apologize if it seemed like I'm a teacher or that I know everything - I'm learning just like everyone else on this forum. But I'd never raise my opinion if I wasn't sure of the facts. I'd never be able to stand behind myself if I wasn't sure that I'm right. And if I'm wrong, please tell me and I'll gladly change my mind.

The forum is a place for debate, not lecturing. And I'm incredibly sorry if it ever came across that I'm arrogant enough to think that I know everything.

And just to be clear, when I offered to help Taylorwoods, I told her that I can recommend books that have been recommended to me from reputable breeders in SA and abroad. And I can refer her to websites that I found informative and helpful. None of this information would have come directly from me, I merely wanted to share with her what I'd been able to learn so far.